The amount of Nestle fanboys in this thread is fucking disturbing
From the study summary: We combine birth record data from over 2.6 million infants across 38 countries in the Demographic and Health Surveys (DHS) with reconstructed historical data from annual investor reports on the timing of Nestlé entrance into infant formula country markets. Consistent with the hypothesis that formula mixed with unclean water could act as a disease vector, we find that infant mortality increased in households with unclean water sources by 19.4 per thousand births following Nestlé market entrance, but had no effect among other households. This rate is equivalent to a 27% increase in mortality in the population using unclean water and amounts to about 212,000 excess deaths per year at the peak of the Nestlé controversy in 1981. https://haas.berkeley.edu/ibsi/research/mortality-from-nestles-marketing-of-infant-formula-in-low-and-middle-income-countries/
Seems pretty damning to me, but will it have any consequences for Nestlé or any of the big honchos at Nestlé from that time? Probably not as usual, since corporations are apparently allowed to kill people as long as they do it in an obfuscated way.
To play (actual) devil’s advocate … Is it Nestle’s fault the drinking water was unclean that was mixed with the formula?
That’s where I would say the whole, who’s responsible part of the equation gets fucky. To be clear, nestle should have done more to combat this and not have pushed formula feeding where they knew the water could be bad.
I’m not a fan of them by any means and would definitely need to read more and definitely know they’re evil (fuck I mean I’m pretty sure every large enough corp is evil, hell most of the small ones too) but it still gives me pause when it’s presented.
Just so I’m unequivocal here - nestle is bad and fuck them.
Access to safe drinking water was a known issue in loads of places at that time, not just in developing countries. My dad grew up in the 1950s and still drank table beer in his elementary school. There’s no way that a 1960s food scientist would have been so incompetent, to not know that not everyone had access to clean drinking water. We can also know that they weren’t acting in this way out of ignorance, because they continued with their unethical practices for years after the consequences became public knowledge. They only stopped because of the world wide consumer boycott. And only a few years after they promised to do better, they started rule dodging again. They simply don’t care about people, only profits matter.
Mega corps like Nestle pay a fortune for whole PR departments to advocate for them- don’t do it for free.
I did say fuck Nestle, didn’t I? I’m not really trying to advocate for them just from reading that excerpt I would be interested to know how much the company and its reps really knew about the drinking water situation.
Like, I’m very certain they didn’t do anything to help or to combat the problem, just curious if it was something they knew about and how it was handled. I can say for sure they’re evil and should have helped. It’s just I am thinking about who knew what and how much.
I guess it’s more of a thought and less of a defending them because I am not a big nestle fan. Although I do love their chocolate milk mix, reminds me of my childhood so I occasionally buy it because I’m a bad guy.
I was replying directly to your post. You said you were playing devil’s advocate. I was saying, you don’t need to.
I bought a jar of Nescafe recently, because my usual instant decaf coffee was out of stock. I wonder if people would hate me more for buying a Nestle product, or drinking instant decaf?
“Please hate both transgressions equally.” ~ Gemma
The unfortunate thing is the taste is unchanged no matter what nestle did. My wife told me not to buy Fair Life milk products because they abuse the animals. It felt so wrong, but tasted so much better to drink their chocolate milk. That being said, it isn’t always better to save money and buy the cheaper brand, than give up some more money trying to support a small business. However, we never know whether that small business will be the next nestle. It’s hard to pick these battles but separate the product from the ones who make it.
Well we can"t know wheter the little brand we choose will be the next Nestle, but this is a thing we shouldn’t exactly worry too much about. Following this reasonment, I should kill every person I meet around, because you never know who they are going to be in the future… I think someone who knows the truth and still continues to buy from a certain brand because “it is better”, though knowing there exist more ethical alternatives, that person is just a most horrible kind of creature, not even a human being, from a purely philosopical and psychological point of view. Don’t take it personal, I don’t know what your decisions has been finally.
No, my point was if it is cheaper to buy the name brand vs the small business that charges more, ethics is less the question and more about separating the product from the creators, just like I separate the artist from the art. There are terrible celebrities who have made good music, what changes about the music, what changes about the product, your knowledge of it. But the product itself is still as it was, your perception of [the creator] is just different. Would you stop paying for recycled plastic if you knew it was once someone’s trash. Ethics is about treating people better. I don’t sit there and think, at the store, let me see who I can support today. No, I buy my groceries like a normal person and look for the deal. I am trying to save money. But that being said, although I still bought fair life, I bought it less after knowing that fact, it still influenced my decision and it was a little more expensive, I liked the taste. But coming down on people for what they support is just as wrong as supporting the thing itself.
If an artist is an evil asshole, I don’t support them anymore. I may still think their art is good, but I don’t buy from them, because I don’t want to support them financially and I also don’t want to spread their twisted message and normalize their behaviour. I don’t want to be connected with their evilness in any way. So separating art from the artist is possible for me only in some cases of artists that are long dead and that I think can do no more harm.
I have to buy purina wet food because it’s the only one my cat accepts and she can’t be without wet food because she refuses to drink water. I’ve try to offer other brands from time to time but no, only this fucking thing
My kitty will only drink freshly poured (we keep a pitcher of water around usually) cup of water. Out of a human cup. No saucers. She wants the cup. Shell jam her little head in there and be happy about it. I’m waiting for the day she gets stuck. Such a little weirdo!
Yes my cat won’t drink water from anywhere that is not the shower floor. disgusting
“This is not speculation but econometric fact — the company’s market entry correlates directly with this surge in infant deaths. The data does not lie”
Okay I’m done here lmao someone skipped stats 101
“Correlation means causation.”
Isn’t that the saying you learned?
The thing we learned is “correlation doesn’t necessarily imply causation”.
Was joking and left off the /s
I know.
I was pointing out the word “necessarily”. It might. It might not.
You don’t have to do free labor for a corporation that doesn’t think access to water is a human right
Yeah. A rise in infant formula use and infant mortality are incredibly different things that couldn’t possibly be linked in the data. Good take. /s
Yeah, but that needs to be proven beyond coincidence.
Not really, why are you carrying water for one of the most human rights violating corporation on the planet?
You’re being an ass, laughing at a situation with a bunch of dead babies, trying to look smart. Knock it off.
You reply to the wrong comment?
No, I’m talking to you, there’s 10 million dead babies and you’re just going lmao correlation lululul
Until there’s reliable scientific evidence, it’s a shitpost that draws on a correlation and correlation is not causation
It’s been pretty well documented, and you’re still an asshole for laughing at dead children. It doesn’t matter if you try to dress it up by pretending to be rational, you’re still an asshole.
